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April 20, 2008

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Andy

Strong stuff but sensible and realistic. I used to think that i would have more faith in Betfair if they were a public quoted company, thinking about it though they would be even more profit driven then so im not so sure, just feel they'd be more open to scrutiny that way. Maybe this part of the industry now needs to come under some seperate sort of regulation and monitoring so we can all have faith in it's integrity. Th crux if the matter here i think is as you rightly point out, Betfair are a licensed to be bookmakers.

NICK BRYANT

Well summed up M. I agree with everything you say. Personally I would like to see the FSA regulate Betfair.

Ato Chiffre

I just picked up on your piece via midasoracle.org. In the light of the poker heist (where the issue was one of was players' money being ringfenced?); the bet matching fiasco (sleight of hand); the grand national debacle (saving face) and now this, Betfair should not fool itself that it has not suffered reputational damage. However, two factors will ensure that it will not lose sleep; it enjoys monopoly status; a weak regulator. However, in the end of the day any exchange is about its traders and it is they alone (collectively) that can change things. Good piece - keep up the fight!

Nick

First of all good to see your back, for a moment there I thought you'd gone the way of most other gambling blogs and hit a black swan (I see Fooled by Randomness on your Amazon list) but then again I was pretty sure you hadn't - having read your post since last year, you talk as much sense as anybody on betting.

On Betfair, rightly or wrongly for selfish reasons I wasn't that exercised by the match betting (il)logic but I completely appreciate that taking money out the system is underhand and could have repercussions for me. On your general point on whether we can trust them, I think we’ve all been a bit seduced into believing Betfair was the great white knights who’d save us from the evil bookmakers, I think it’s always been a business, like all businesses which balances the profit motive with not f*cking off it’s customers. But as you say the security of it’s monopoly has meant it can try these things on. But not wanting to sound like a sycophant I think they’ve been relatively restrained over the years given their position and it’s probably worth remembering they have climbed down on the skimming bot. As for if I believe they are acting ethical, if I’m honest I get a bit queasy when ethics and gambling get mentioned in the same sentence!

I’d be careful if what you wish might come true on regulation, a lot of what goes on on Betfair probably doesn’t bear much inspection, I think regulation would be detrimental to most punters especially those that make money. As for the Fundamentally Supine Authority, I’d trust them no more to recognise what could harm punters, with recognising that banks with loan books highly leveraged against temperamental financial markets will inevitably go bust. But then again I suppose we are yet to see if the Gambling Commision has any teeth (I’m not holding my breath…) Anyway if things got hot for them, Malta has always been their get out of jail card and most of us would follow them with our pants round our ankles.

I suppose the only real solution will be the market, traders (for want of a better word) will only move if the believe they will make more money elsewhere and elsewhere will only happen if a viable exchange is launched. Why there hasn’t been a proper rival I’m not sure, my guess is there isn’t as much money in the exchange model as most believed.

Apologies if my post has been too contrary, like I say I think you talk a lot of sense throughout your blog, but I thought I’d add my thoughts.

Swingtrader Igor

Good point....

Selectabet

Hi Matt, good to see you posting again.

I didn't realise Betfair wasn't regulated by the FSA. To my mind it's an investment platform more than a gambling platform. But wouldn't FSA regulation make it open to (Capital Gains?) Tax implications for the customer though? Not sure.

I'm not a Betfair user (I've been sticking that other evil of the bookmakers) but your comments would make me think twice.

The monopolisation of the market gives Betfair the ultimate power and is very dangerous but as long as there are people willing to bet and match bets there will always be Betfair - regardless of what tricks they get up to.

boylesports free bet

a very interesting article this. certainly raises a few points worth thinking about

Matt

Thanks everyone for the well thought out and lengthy responses, sorry I've been slow in replying, but this is the sort of pace punt.com is rolling along at, at the moment. I will eventually get back to everyone however, so here I am...

To "Nick" in particular, I don't mind at all anyone voicing contrary opinions, your comment was excellent and most probably spot on. You are right, it's dicey ground when gambling and ethics come face to face, particularly on an exchange where it seems pretty much anything goes in the fight to make a profit. I don't see that changing and perhaps that's all best left alone, but I do believe Betfair should do it's very best to be ethical in it's practices... it has a bookies license, but it's supposed to be the revolutionary transparent product. I think it's time we wised up to the fact that they are just another company like most others that will push their position for what it's worth, and that's a lot, being the monopoly they are.

Yeah sure the FSA like many regulators around might have issues of it's own, but I would trust them more to deal better with issues relating to exchange trading. They have the legal framework to work from with regards to insider trading for example (again I'm no expert in this field).. the gambling commission ? Well, I have little faith there, maybe I am not being fair, but are they really the best equipped regulators to deal with something that handles many times the number of transactions per day that the London Stock Exchange does (and all the complexities) ? I doubt it.

Your point about there maybe not being as much money in the exchange model is, IMO, spot on. Some have called it a niche market, I wouldn't go so far, but I would say it's a small margin business with limited growth. What do youdo when you've signed up everyone you can sign up ? You start milking them for what you can... really, Betdaq need to step it up and start innovating to get customers accross, it's getting to the point where there's enough disatisfaction around to make a decent impact. There's been two site outages in the last week or so at Betfair, everytime this happens, some more people will open Daq accounts, but more needs doing. I am hearing through the grapevine of some interesting developments to do with this..

Once again, thanks everyone for your comments, they're appreciated and added greatly to the post.

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